2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Well...when God said that he created the wold in seven days, we don't know how long those days were. The Dionosaurs might have died right after Adam and Eve sinned! Since it could have been thousands of years till he created them. Every thing else you said---way over my head. Never even HEARD of all that!....meh..

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: man never existed the same time of dinosuars....get you time lines straight...they dies 64 BILLION years ago, and humans, like Adam and Eve, have only been about for a few million...and god said he created man in his image, and that adam was lonely, so he created woman, Eve...that doesn't work, because what of the cro-magnons and neanderthals? they were a reproducing species...there were men and woman...

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Meh...I'm not even going to start! I don't under stand science at all....'cept Atoms and simple stuff like that! *Thanks her Catholic Science book for simple answers*....meh I say!!

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: i love sciance, and the creation story is the hardest thing i can't believe in because it just DOESN'T fit with what we have found in digs and have solid evidence of...

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Yup, that stuff can be sooo hard to look through! I have this Catholic Science book that you would just LOVE! It explains all that stuff and comes in with stuff from the bible and how to understand it all...but it's so not for me...!

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: i don't trust *anything* the catholic church has writting to justify their beliefs...sorry...

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Ohh well. It was worth a try...

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: lol...sorry...religion trying to use sciance to justify itself *never* goes well, no mater what you believe in...oh, and teri, i Haaaave somethin' for yah...(^_^)

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: You do?! *feels loved...* *grin*

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: hehhe...i was looking through it...*giggles*

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: MEH! Soon enough...it shall be...MINE! All mine...my precious....*cackle*..

2005-01-19 [Mr. Werewolf]: Well, what the Catholic Church has taught me is to look at creation in a symbolic manner. Perhaps the reason that the author of Genesis wrote that God created the world in seven days was to show God's astonishing power and greatness. Science tells us that it took a couple billion years to create Earth, and perhaps it is correct. It really doesn't matter to us, all that matters to us is that it happened.

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: well, God is infinity...a day to him is how long to us...

2005-01-19 [Mr. Werewolf]: Exactly ^_^

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: still, the bible cantradicts what sciance has proven...that is my problem...

2005-01-19 [Mr. Werewolf]: Hmm, well I find the hardest part of the Bible to put to history is the period between creation and the great flood. There are so few generations between the fall of Eden and the flood. Already, there was an advanced civilization by the time of the flood. It is perhaps just another symbolism. Right now that's all I can think of as an explanation.

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: yeah, and summoning ALL the animals of the world, 2 or 7 of each kind...you have ANY idea how much SPACE that would take up? or how much food would be needed to care fro them all for 40 days...and some animals, like the Giant Panda, eats like, 90 lbs of bamboo a day and that only grows one place in the world, so did the panda’s pack a lunch before hiking over to the middle east? and the other animals that are native to OTHER continents just swam across the Atlantic and marched across Europe? Somehow none of that adds up...

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Well...in my Bible Study, I learned that people lived longer then. Much longer. I mean there were so few people, and in the first generations, they married family because I mean..Adam and Eve started every thing! So...every one lived for a long time and had lots of kids. Sounds right to me. Gosh I love Bible Study...--Oh and [Mr. Werewolf] I agree with you on His power...it's amazing...^^

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: yeas, people lived for a few hundred years each, god made the promise that no one would live longer than 1000 years, and no one did, though one got close before dying...but still, the times just DON'T ,ach earth's geological, and biological history...

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Well...someday we will all find out every thing in God's plan...what it was...what it will be....but only in time....maybe even a long time, but eventually...=)

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: well, you see teri, my love for science is what makes me question God's very existance...

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: ohh..I see!

2005-01-19 [Frosty French Fry]: if you question Gods existance, why go to church

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: That's VERY true, a good statement Matt....If we Question God we question the highest athority, and reason of our own existance..

2005-01-19 [Frosty French Fry]: so RaineDrop...you question Gods existance....do you also beleive the big bang theory and the evolution theory

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: i question god, because he doesn't fit with the evidance we have...and yes, i do believe in evolution...i used to beilive in creation by evolution, meaning god had a hand in creating life, but had life evolve rather than "rise from dust" and i go to church because i haven't rejected god YET...i'm still seeing if sciance and god can coexist

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Wow...that is TOUGH....I don't believe in that big bang crud. I think it's clear that God made EVERY THING! And that man just wants to put God totally out of every thing so that they don't have a heavy conscience. Some of these theories man comes up with is just to take God out of God's world. Every one hears that God is in OUR world, well that's wrong. Compleatly. We are in HIS world. And we should respect him for what he has done.....I really need to read up on all this...

2005-01-19 [the_puetzj]: oh science and God can coexist..........there might be a few civil wars from time to time but they can exist together if we tried try and understand more than we can handle about God's ways

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: you should [Tesa], even if you don't believe any of it, i believe in expanding the mind so you can at least know what other people are talking about....that is why i want to so many different forms of church...just to broaden my mind...AND the big-bang *is* probable...who said God didn't *cause* the big bag to create the universe?

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Because I think God is beautiful, and the way it is written in the Bible is beautiful.....And I will read up on it, I mean I HAVE! I'm just not that into it I guess....*sigh*..

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: I gotta run, I'll be back laters!!!^o^

2005-01-19 [Lioness123]: rainedrop, could you explain more about why you believe that modern science contradicts the bible?

2005-01-19 [Lioness123]: new prayer request!

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: not “modern science” lioness, like medical breakthroughs. I’m talking about archeological, and geological evidence...the timelines the bible talks about do not fit with what we are able to prove, and have evidence of in all our research and study of the earth, and it's ancient creatures and how the modern ones came about…for instance, god never mentions the Neanderthals, or the dinosaurs, yet we have paleontologists digging up their fossils every day…and we have sufficient evidence to support evolution theory, but that to contradicts what the bible clearly states…

2005-01-19 [Lioness123]: I meant science in general. well, I believe in guided evololution, and alot of what the bible says could have been a simpler way of explaining things to humanity that they didn't know of at the time. For example, it says that God created man out of the dust of the earth...microorganisms first came to be in the dirt and moisture of the earth, then slowly evolved to water, then land creatures. Thus, we humans did come from the dust of the earth

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: actually, first life started in the ocean/water...

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: I agree with what you said Lioness....we grew a lot smarter over the years so really it would only make sence if the Bible was like...simpler for us to understand! That's a great point...I would have never thought of that in a million years...=P

2005-01-19 [Mr. Werewolf]: I agree with [Lioness123]. The Bible explains things in a simplified fashion (and it also uses symbolism). It is possible to believe in God while believing in the Big Bang Theory and Evolution Theory. Actually, Charles Darwin was a very religious man...his theory just states that animals change over time to adjust to their surroundings. Some people have taken it to some extremes but it doesn't contradict religion if both are taken with open minds. The Big Bang theory can also be taken in a religious context...perhaps it was the path God took to create the universe? Perhaps he wanted to create the universe in a way that would fit its properties. We as mere humans can only speculate.

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: actraully, mr. werewolf, i said that all already a few comments ago...but regadless, i still find the bible's "tall tales" hard to believe...like Noah's arch...

2005-01-19 [Frosty French Fry]: [RabidSphinx]...if you find them hard to beleive then dont go to church

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: wow...way to be supportive...lets not try and convince someone to believe in god and rather just tell them to not go to church and give up on them completely...what SHITTY Catholics you are!

2005-01-19 [Frosty French Fry]: no not everyone here..just me

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: Catholic's!? HEY! I didn't say ANY THING! Don't go calling ME a BAD Catholic [RabidSphinx]!!!

2005-01-19 [Frosty French Fry]: like i said....it was just me who made that comment

2005-01-19 [Mr. Werewolf]: [RabidSphinx] I don't think that you should give up on God. There are some difficult questions out there but you have to look at the glass as half full. Science is proving many things in the Bible. For example, they found evidence of a huge flood that engulfed the area around the Black Sea which they think could be Noah's flood. I think that's amazing. Also, the Neanderthals lived farther north in Russia and Siberia I think, while the events in the OT take place primarily in the area of present-day Israel and Mesopotamia (the civilized world back then). The Neanderthals could have been descended from people who left that area and migrated north.

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: and i directed the comment AT you big-pimp...you and mr. wolf...

2005-01-19 [Frosty French Fry]: ok

2005-01-19 [Mr. Werewolf]: Hey what did I do?

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: the Neanderthals date back to pre-civilization...see this is my problem...you are making theories up when you don't know enough about them...by the time there were people creating civilizations in the fertile crescent and what not, the Neanderthals were already EXTINCT! They couldn’t have been people that just migrated to the north after Adam and Eve’s sin…and the flood of which you speak of, I have read about, and it only covered the area around the red sea…not the “whole earth” as the bible described it…there isn’t enough unfrozen water on the earth to flood the WHOLE planet…and the icecaps have been dated, they are EXTREMELY old...a few BILLION years old, older than humans on this planet

2005-01-19 [Tesa]: I agree with [Mr. Werewolf]. Don't give up on God, because he will never give up on you. You will find out some day [RabidSphinx] what God has done and why and the questions of his Mightyness will be explained. We just have to sit tight and wait. Untill then, we can pray for answers and look deeper into others things, but keep in mind that God is God, and we are not. He'll help you [RabidSphinx]...don't worry...So don't let the evil powers sway you from God, for with God, you can do every thing! With out him, nothing is possible...*hugs*

2005-01-19 [RabidSphinx]: well, the way *i* see things is this, You live life, dedicated to God. If, when you die, god *does* exist, you go to Heaven. If God *doesn’t* exist, then you lived a decent life and nothing happens and you’re just dead…either way, I have all my bases covered…

2005-01-20 [the_puetzj]: to sum up some of what i have read since i got home from work i read or heard somewhere that "believe in what u can see and understand is easy but believing what u cant see or understand is hard and that is what true faith in God is about. Also everything the bible says didn't happen exactly as it was written what is in the bible is an interprtation or one man's understanding so much may be exagerated as an example i have heard beliefs that the flood may have only lasted a week not 40 days and nights

2005-01-20 [RabidSphinx]: then why didn't it just say "a week" why say 40 days and nights? it isn't like we can't comprehend a week's time...

2005-01-20 [Mr. Werewolf]: I just had a CCD class and ironically our topic for this class was "creation"!!! It was very interesting and I would like to bring up a new (actual Roman Catholic) way of looking at creation. The Book of Genesis was actually written by *three* people. They did not know how God created the world. Rather than God telling people what to write, the Bible was actually written by people to tell people about the role of God in lives. Clearly the creation myth in the Bible is not historically correct. All that matters is that God created the world and everything in it. That's the Catholic belief in a nutshell. In conclusion, we believe the Bible wasn't meant to be taken literally. So no worries! ^_^

2005-01-20 [RabidSphinx]: i thought Moses wrote Genesis....

2005-01-20 [Mr. Werewolf]: The first five books of the Bible are called the Moses Books but that doesn't mean he had to have written them. My Bible says this in its notes before the Book of Genesis: "Despite its unity of plan and purpose, the book is a complex work, not to be attributed to a single original author."

2005-01-20 [Tesa]: That's a good point Mr. Werewolf....the Bible is NOT meant to be taken literally....

2005-01-20 [Frosty French Fry]: ok....i am going to be reading all the comments made from here on out..however i will not be commenting myself...i am taking some time to collect information about the church, Gods creation of earth, evolution theory, big bang theory, JW's, etc etc

2005-01-20 [RabidSphinx]: i'm actually ignoring this wiki...it's just about turned me off of god completly

2005-01-20 [Lioness123]: dang, i always miss alot when I go to work/ class...But I do have one thing to add.. What about atoms? Can you see an atom? There are hundreds of billions of them all around you all, even composing the body that you control. How do you know that they exist if you can't see them? because they're all around you all the time, and are even part of you. and then, what about wind? or o-zone? or radio waves?

2005-01-20 [Frosty French Fry]: [RabidSphinx] your the one who questions his existance

2005-01-20 [Tesa]: No [RabidSphinx]!!! Don't give up on God!! He'll never EVER give up on YOU! You only have to trust that he will help you RaineDrop!! Don't let the word of men discourage you, let the word of God raise your hopes! But please, give God a chance! You know he's given you LOTS of chances!! I'll send you some stuff as soon a friend of mine returns from his vacations, but hold up till then!! PLEASE! 

2005-01-20 [Bad Stone]: you CAN see atoms, I think its the electron microscope where you can see the surface of an atom.

2005-01-20 [Mr. Werewolf]: Well, most of the Molecular Theory remains an unproven theory...you can see atoms but you can't see electrons because they move too fast. I think my science teacher told us that. But I think their existence is rather obvious if you look at it scientifically. Dang, I'm taking chemistry next year, too bad this isn't taking place then. Maybe I'd have some more definate answers :-S

2005-01-21 [Lioness123]: how many times of magnification does an electron microscope have?

2005-01-21 [Mr. Werewolf]: I'm not quite sure, it can see atoms although everything moves so fast nobody will ever know what an atom really looks like. Even an electron microscope cannot reveal that. I know electron microscopes operate differently than conventional microscopes. Conventional microscopes use light and a lens to show what the subject looks like when magnified. Obviously, things as small as an atom cannot reflect light alone so they have to do something different. Who knows, science is all theoretical; hardly anything is certain. I mean, even gravity is just another theory. Just because it works here doesn't mean it doesn't work elsewhere. That's actually the belief that scientists hold.

2005-01-21 [RabidSphinx]: they can magnify enough to see the surface of the atom itself...but not the electrons that are buzzing around...they can magnify to, like, 1 millionx or something now...because they are "electron" microscopes....actually Gravity is a theory ONLY because we are unable to prove or disprove it due to the fact that we have yet to be able to find a place where there is no gravity to perform experiments...even space you are effected by planetary gravity, and the star's pull on us...and you say sciance is all "theory" yet we can prove more about sciance than we can about god...god is the *biggest* theory out there

2005-01-21 [Mr. Werewolf]: Yet there are people who see evidence of theories like evolution, etc. and would bet their bippies that it was for real. It's the same with God. Nobody actually knows if God is real or not, it's all what you believe and if you will take the signs that are out there for the self-assurance that God is real. People with stronger faiths have more concrete beliefs, and they are generally more happy with their it.

2005-01-21 [RabidSphinx]: fun thing about sciance, but for the gravity theory we will never be able to prove (for the reasons i explained) all other bits of sciance we can prove, or disprove, or are *working* on proving or disproving, but have the capability of *oneday* proving/disproving it...god you can't...he can't be proven to exist conclusively in *any* way...not until you die...and by then, it's too late to matter, and you can't inform anyone

2005-01-21 [Mr. Werewolf]: Well, as my history teacher likes to say, "human being embrace paradox." God cannot be disproven, so it's just a matter of looking at what we are given and making our own judgements. That is what everyone does, consciously or unconsciously.

2005-01-21 [RabidSphinx]: nor can he be proven...looking around me, i see no evidance of him...(to be continued...Midterms in the morning...night...)

2005-01-21 [Mr. Werewolf]: See you [RabidSphinx]! Sleep well, I hope you do good tomorrow! Ach, now I'm starting to sound like my english teacher (just kidding!).

2005-01-21 [Bad Stone]: It has a magnification of 1,000,000x I can't remember...and I don't have my binder, electron microscopes use electrons instead of light. Trust me on my knowledge of atoms, I know most modren physics avaliabe, and yet my school refuses to move me up in science, I'm stuck in BIOLOGY grr....and of course there are atoms, no one can disprove that, deny sure, but when people are 'atom smashing' to MAKE gravity (yeah, its possible) to try to semi-prove the existence of parralell universes...thats when you believe small things can do big stuff! YAY! (see, I'm only 5 feet myself...so it makes me feel powerful!)

2005-01-21 [Lioness123]: wow, you're really smart...I never was good at physics and chemistry. I'm taking chem. now, and I'm kinda worried about my grade.

2005-01-21 [Tesa]: You might not see him NOW RaineDrop. No one thinks they see God when they have been leading a hard life for so long, or going through en exstended hard time. But you can't always look at that. If you love Science then you truly do love God, for every little scientific thing that never fails to amaze you, God made, God unstands that and put that into being....so....loving Science should only glorify God. *will get back to you on that....* My friend STILL is not home..

2005-01-21 [RabidSphinx]: you say i glorify god by glorifying sciance because YOU think god created it...i say, "prove it"...you keep saying god will make it clear one day, one day i will see that god did it all...but that is no good, now, and it's just hopes, not facts

2005-01-21 [Tesa]: Like I said---I'll get back to you after I get some info from a friend of mine when he gets back home. Till then!^o^

2005-01-22 [Bad Stone]: dont worry, my good grades in science are balanced by spanish *sigh* and math...cause I make stupid mistakes *:P* so don't worry, I'm not that great at what they 'teach' me, since they never teach you anything interesting/relevantly important.

2005-01-22 [Mr. Werewolf]: I know exactly what you mean Eldheler! I get good grades, but I don't think that school challenges me enough.

2005-01-22 [RabidSphinx]: i fail all my classes and don't give a f*ck either...

2005-01-22 [Tesa]: School...it's a love hate relation ship. I don't need any more of a challange....*sigh..*..o_O

2005-01-22 [RabidSphinx]: i'm dropping out

2005-01-22 [Tesa]: Ohh really??? That's kind of sad....School can be hard but I really have learned alot. But I WILL STATE...Algebra is DUMB!...=D there, now I'm done...

2005-01-22 [Mr. Werewolf]: I don't like math because all the exercises get too tedious. All my math points went to my sister and all her social studies points went to me hehe.

2005-01-22 [RabidSphinx]: i have been in highschool for almost 6 years now...i'm tired of it, i should be out by now, but i'm not...so i'm not sticking around

2005-01-22 [Tesa]: For 6 years, really? How old are you?

2005-01-22 [RabidSphinx]: turning 19

2005-01-22 [Tesa]: ohhh I see

2005-01-22 [Lioness123]: I'm just glad to be away from all the stupid preppies and snotty people....like the cheerleaders and football players. College is WAY better

2005-01-22 [RabidSphinx]: have a problem with cheerleaders...?*narrows eyes*

2005-01-22 [Bad Stone]: arent you a cheerleader though? anyways...you started highschool at 13? math has a reason...but really Algebra 2 and Pre-Calc are exacly the same...can I just skip Pre-Calc? PLEASE?

2005-01-22 [Mr. Werewolf]: I have nothing against cheerleaders. My sister is a cheerleader and she isn't a bad girl. She is a very good student. Most cheerleaders I know are actually good people.

2005-01-22 [Bad Stone]: in my school they are all mostly short and chunky...and rich and annoying, there are a few nice ones...but it really strange that they are all chunky and short...kindof funny actually

2005-01-22 [Tesa]: Hey! Chunky people are people too!

2005-01-22 [Bad Stone]: yes but they arent the typical cheerleader though they act like it...and its weird cause arent they supposed to be all fit and strong to lift eachother up? all well mayb ehtye dont do that...since I never watch them cheer

2005-01-23 [Lioness123]: well, around here, they are mostly stuck up bit**es who think that they are royalty and the rest of us are just here to admire them.

2005-01-23 [Bad Stone]: yeah...thats them...but they all look the same (at least about 2/3rds) act that same and everything....*puke* they are so fake and chunky and short though...its just not well, the fake part yes, but not the rest...its so not the way a cheerleader is 'supposed' to be...lol whatever...I really dont care, except they are such an eyesore

2005-01-23 [the_puetzj]: hey wow we talked about something besides RaineDrop's disbelief *looks shocekd* first time since i joined EP thats happened what a relief i was getting sick of it

2005-01-23 [RabidSphinx]: fuck you [the_puetzj] i was just ignoring this wiki...

2005-01-23 [Mr. Werewolf]: Yeah, but I don't think that we should talk about cheerleaders...they just seem to bring out negative emotions in some people. How about we start a new topic of conversation? Something relevant mayhap?

2005-01-23 [Lioness123]: I heard that the roman catholic church of spain recently approved the useage of condoms....has anyone else hard anything about this?

2005-01-23 [RabidSphinx]: haven't...i was sure the church still stood firm in their "no contraceptive or masturbation" rule...which was BEYOND me...it isn’t “abortion” until the life is CREATED…simply taking a step in preventing it form happening (like using a condom) or simply masturbating as a youth to relieve sexual tension so you don’t act on it stupidly sounds fine to me and is better in the long run…

2005-01-23 [Mr. Werewolf]: Well...the Church changed its stance on condoms in that it helps prevent the spread of STDs, but I don't think it necessarily approved its usage. I think that if people just waited until marriage there wouldn't be a problem with STDs, and then people wouldn't have to worry terribly about getting pregnant. And since you bring it up RaineDrop, masturbation IS acting on sexual tension. It's a terrible, sinful act that people try to justify. Countless arguments have I had with people who submit to the devils tempations!

2005-01-23 [RabidSphinx]: wow...you ARE a loser werewolf...it is perfectly natural to masturbate...it has NOTHING to do with the “devil”, and EVERYTHING to do with a young adults growing desires in their changing bodies...masturbation has been proven to be a VERY healthy stress reliever AND, proven that young adults that masturbate, are less-likely to have sex because they don’t have such a tension…and, yes, condoms ARE good because unlike your ideal society, people will NOT wait till marriage, and even if they do, that doesn’t mean they are ready OR capable of caring and raising a child…are you saying a young, happily married couple can’t use a condom?

2005-01-23 [Mr. Werewolf]: I am not a loser! Chastity makes people less controlled by their desires. People who masturbate only encourage those desires. People who don't, often they have a reason not to. The kinds of people who have sex cannot resist their feelings, just as many people who masturbate have difficulty resisting those feelings. Many of my ex-friends took that path. Sex was a gift given by God...it's sacred and should be kept that way. It is both for reproduction and a declaration of love. Young people do not know what love is yet, so they are acting on lust. Lust is a sin.

2005-01-23 [Mr. Werewolf]: People will not wait until marriage, but that doesn't make it right. If they're going to do such a foolish thing, then they should know the consequences. Birth control doesn't always work. The only kind supported by the Church is the rhythem cycle, which uses the natural menstrual cycle to help couples plan families. Sex is good among married people...it is for reproduction as well as a declaration of love. It is a serious thing...so the only way it can be properly carried out is in marriage.

2005-01-23 [RabidSphinx]: there is NOTHING wrong with masturbation, …”lust is a sin” and EVERYONE sins, and EVERYONE feels lust…getting find of that lust is NOT a sin…and yes, birth control and contraceptives don't *always* work, but damn, that 99% of the time that it does you LOSER...if i am married, that doesn't mean i want, or can CARE for, a CHILD but that also means you can’t tell me i can't have SEX...i have every right to use a condom if i'm married, and unmarried people have every right to use one too if they don't want a baby or an STD...i don't agree with sex before marriage, but the larger % of the population does, so you have to let them not fill up abortion clinics and orphanages with unwanted children!

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: Well, I'm not forcing you am I? People have the right, people can make choices... and it is a free country. However, I do think that there is something wrong with masturbation, as does the Church. It's just not right to follow along with feelings of lust. Everyone may get them, but that doesn't mean that it's a good thing. People should just ignore it, go do something fun or productive. You'll thank yourself in the long run.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: i don't masturbate, because i don't feel the need, but somepeople do...there is nothing sinful about it...you have just been brainwashed by the church...again...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: That's disgusting RaineDrop! I can't believe you! And how dare you call [Mr. Werewolf] a loser! Masturbating is a VERY lustful sin, AND just because WE ALL SIN doesn't mean we have to ACT ON THOSE ANIMAL LIKE INSTINCTS. If you have a need for heavens sake try to drown the thought from your mind. ALSO! The PILL, is a HORRIBLE FORM OF ABORTION. Most think that the pill keeps you from GETTING pregnant, that is wrong. It keeps you from STAYING pregnant, thus killing the unknown baby in the womans womb. Another sick form of murder. And when you DO masturbate, you are consenting to the devil and his works. Lust is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. And for your infortmation [RabidSphinx], we are not 

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: brainwashed. We have seen these imoral acts and with our FREE GOD GIVEN WILLS, how masturbation brings out ugly thoughts of the human body. It's basically pornagraphy in your thoughts. Our bodies are meant for more then sick pleasure that many continue to feed off of.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: hahaha...then i pitty you teri....and i'm on the pill...you calling me a murderer? you *have* been brainwashed...that's what's so sad...you have been told that touching a bodypart is the will of "the devil" if i stroked my arm, would that be just as evil? it's JUST a bodypart, and it's JUST a sensation...it isn't sex where you should have a feeling of love for someone else...you are touhing YOURSELF...the catholic church's brainwashing on such topics like self pleasure are one of the reasons i have decided to say "screw you god", oh, and you guys...you were a big hand in that too...(^_^)

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: Why [RabidSphinx], I thought you were a member of Real Virgin Pride! Why are you on the pill?

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: because i need it for reasons no business of yours...and i may *not* be a virgin forever...i just am now...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Using the enjoyment for a selfish pleasure is disgusting. ALSO I don't know where you come up with some of these things RaineDrop. You come in here, and do not ASK POLITELY *why* we believe in what we do, or HOW we got to know about the things we DO believe in. You diss our beloved faith, put our very own persons down and now you blame us for your loss of Faith in God. Your one piece of work. Do not blame US for YOUR mistrust in God.

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Pity me no more RaineDrop, for I need no pity in the Religion I have come to know, and all thanks to you, that is the true religion and faith that I will soon dedicate my life to spreading. And he is not *our* God. He is EVERY ONE'S GOD. We are not so great to call him our own, he is too Great to be Called to only ONE person.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: no, i *know* why you believe what you believe...because the chruch TOLD you to believe...and my loss of faith in "god" is due to brainwashed people like you that can look a fact straight on, and ignore it because your church says something different...that isn't faith, that's just stupidity...i came here to learn originally, and all i have learned is this "god" of yours is just something the church uses to control you

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: Why would the Church want to control us? The leaders of the Church have to follow the same guidelines we do, and they do!

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: *some* do...not all...and all they want is your money...how do you think the pope eats and lives? through your "gifts and donations" (that are nmanditory) to the church

2005-01-24 [the_puetzj]: u know i really thought this site and this wiki would be fun but u have pretty much spoiled all of EP for me RaineDrop and i know i used to masterbate i hated it and despretly wished i could stop but it is addictive the reason i started i think was cause people like u wouldnt stop telling me i did so i decided to try it once

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: glad *one* wiki could turn you off of EP when *all* of ET turned me off [the_puetzj]...and like i said...*i* don't masturebate...but there *isn't* anything wrong with doing it...it is just touching a part of your OWN body...how could that be wrong? "god" made us, and our bodies are beautiful...why is looking and touching any part of his "gift" bad?

2005-01-24 [the_puetzj]: I really dont know i agree with u in a way but something just seems bad about it

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Because he didn't make us to have sexual pleasures with our own bodies RaineDrop. AND! What the duce is up with you and the money thing? The Church wants our money eh? Well, so don't the JW's, the Protestants, Lutherans, you name it. They ALL need money. How else are they able to live. And besides that, The Church knows that many people have barely enough money to support themselves, why would they further *take* money from them? They wouldn't. And it's NOT manditory. Where did you get THAT idea?

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: well, doing it excesively is bad, and doing it with other people or to porn is bad...but simply touching yourself while in the shower and seeing how good it feels is okay...you like to be tickled? you smile when someone, say, tickles your sides? it feels good, though can be annoying...but we doing say "tickling is evil!" it's just a sensation...and a good one...

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: Gifts are not mandatory, and the Church leaders do need to make a living. Most parishes struggle to stay afloat as it is, yet my parish has a sister parish in Honduras which it sends money all the time...not to mention all the foundations that are working all over the world.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: and teri...it's called Tithing...the church demanding 10% of ALL your income...

2005-01-24 [the_puetzj]: never mind f*** it im leavin u are just p***ing me off..........i dont even know y i edited that for u

2005-01-24 [the_puetzj]: they don not demand they ask for donations.........but oh yeah im not here

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: edited what for me? mer? *is confused* and yeah...i'm back to being gone too...this wiki just makes me annoyed

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: The Church does not do that anymore [RabidSphinx], get with the program.

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: They don't demand, they ASK. RaineDrop that was a little silly. Tickling? Heavens! I KNOW tickling isn't BAD! Gosh...I won't touch my self to see how *good it feels* because it's wrong.

2005-01-24 [the_puetzj]: annoys me to but that is mostly just u

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: because you were TOLD it was wrong...what i'm asking is what is the difference between a ticking and a touch?...and yeah it has a lot of slang...mostly for male use, but that doesn't make it wrong

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: According to the FAQ of ALT.SEX.MASTURBATION, masturbation is "sexual activity involving only one person." 1 Other widely used emotionally neutral terms are: "self-stimulation," and "self-pleasuring." Two negative terms which are not in wide usage are "self-abuse" and "onanism."

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: I'd like to clear one thing up...Your body is not your own. You're body was given to you at birth by God, your body is God's temple during life, and when you die, God will take your body back. It is not your own. We are given our bodies for only the length of time that we are alive, and need to take good care of it and treat it as what it is... a temple of God. Treat it with love, don't flash it like eye candy, and don't abuse it.

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: I agree.....thanks Lioness.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: yeah? yeah? well, i will still pierce my ears, i will still get a tattoo (if i ever want one) and i will touch any part of my body i want...i'm not harming it in any way...god did not "loan" us a body...he didn't do anything...my mom's egg and my dad's sperm mixed and my body grew and formed...it's mine

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Yes, but God made it. He gave you the wonderful body you have, it's a treasure you must guard and keep clean.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: i keep clean...i shower...but touching my arms, legs, or anything else doesn't make me dirty...and god did NOTHING! my parents did...god has NO direct hand in ANYTHING remember? he said that himself...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: I pierced my ears to....^_-... 3 in one ear and 2 in the other!

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: OH NO! teri! that is distruction of god's GIFT to you! how COULD you disrespect it like that!!

2005-01-24 [Dint]: It's all about morals, and keeping our bodies pure...mind, body and soul.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: you saying touching yourself isn't "moral"? i can understand the not touching *other* people...but why not yourself?

2005-01-24 [Dint]: I think masterbation is immoral because the person who's doing it is obviously having unclean thoughts to trigger the this "sensation" to begin with. Showering and cleaning yourself isn't a sin. Masterbation is a completely different sort of touch than just washing yourself with soap.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: my BF masturbates...he says he "can't help it" when he thinks of me but he also admits that he isn't thinking of me nude, just of ME, as me...tis daydreaming about your GF, fully clothed i might add, a "dirty" thought?

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: That's RIGHT [Dint]! They are two WAY diferent things. Black and white.

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]:

HEY!!! no fighting! Keep this a polite, civilized debate!

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: the problem with the church is everything is "black and white" when there is *actually* a LOT of grey area

2005-01-24 [Dint]: I don't know your boyfriend, or how he thinks, but I have always grown up that masterbating is wrong to do. I didn't learn that this act was wrong by the church but from my parents and friends. My beliefs in Catholicism only reinforce this for me.

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Eeep....Sorry Lioness...

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: you a believer in the myth that it can make you blind or hairy plamed?...because, just so you know...those aren't true either...

2005-01-24 [Dint]: Nope. I've never heard of that.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: hahah...it was an old story commony spread to youth that "masturbation is wrong and it can cause blindness and hairy palms"...

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: Touching yourself in immoral ways can be immoral

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: and on a happier note, my BF got second place in the Cutest Boy Award!!! yay!!!

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: what is *your* deffinition of "immoral"? i don't see touching your "privates" to be immoral

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: The same as the dictionaries put it...Immoral: Contrary to established moral principles.

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: tell him congrats for me, rainedrop!

2005-01-24 [Dint]: It depends on the person I guess. I think touching of your privates in any sexual way is an immoral act. On the other hand, like I have said before, washing and taking care of your body is causing no sin because no sexual implication is intended.

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: Immorally touching yourself would be touching yourself to fulfil something that was in itself immoral--in this case, the sin of lust. A VERY immoral act.

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: I fully agree with Dint

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: will do...and what are the "established moral principles"? those are different for everyone...according to mine masturbation is fine and dandy as long as it isn't a driving force in your life...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: What I think to be immorally wrong, are wicked things that usually have to do with one's body. Like, sex before marriage. Abortion. Gay Marriage. Good morals are like…..A clean tongue, (Speaking wise..) Clean thoughts, and Clean acts....but thats just me...

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: clean thoughts? you can't help that...the rest is self control...but if a naked man walks in on your thoughts, you can't control that...i agree with the no sex part (even though i may not live up to it) but really, you can't punish someone for a thought...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Thoughts are tricky. But DWELLING on thoughts can be QUITE immoral.

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: I disagree, but we all have our own opinions and NEED TO RESPECT THEM.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: you dissagree that you CAN punish someone for a thought lioness?

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: I disagree with the idea that one cannot control their own thoughts.

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: I agree about thoughts. You don't have total control of your thoughts which part of the reason why people struggle with their thoughts. However, if thoughts come to mind that are unclean, you should ignore them or think about something else. That is all we can do. However, after a while you become better at it and the evil thoughts come less often. It's like setting a habit.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: well, i enjoy my dirty thoughts...*shrugs* they do no harm

2005-01-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: You may like them, but they do not help you get closer to God. That should be everyone's goal.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: well, it aint my goal anymore...so i'm set i guess

2005-01-24 [Dint]: Aye [Mr. Werewolf]!

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]:

Pro-Life won the best wiki award!!! *dances*

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Oh!! I updated the Catholic Vocations page! And it's growing....I hope people look at it, and I hope it helps. If any one, ANY ONE has any advice or wants me to put an Order or a Community, feel free to let me know!

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: congrats RaineDrop! pro-life is an excellent wiki

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Yes it is...I love the pictures!

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: well, i wouldn't say i *love* the pictures...but they carry a strong message...and i want to appologize to yall for talking so bad to yall...i'm having some troubles in my life right now...i shouldn't take any of it out on you guys...(-_-)...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: No, but what the message gives, that is what I love about it. .....Oh RaineDrop....*hugs* You were forgiven before you asked for it. Don't worry, we all have hard times...and some times they are just far to hard to take on.

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: thank you for apologizing rainedrop, we all have hard times, I hope things get better soon. I'll say a prayer for you.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: *beats head into desk*

2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: I really should be doing my chemistry homework...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: RaineDrop? Is there...any thing I can do for you? Besides pray?....I know we have different beliefs and the likes, but that doesn't mean I don't like you, or hate you, or not want to help you. So...if there is any thing I can do (Depends...I wont sing for you...lol..)...but yeah, lemme know.

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: well, right now i wish i had some bandages...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Oh...well smashing your head into a desk can do that. Oh, and I will be sending you something out either this weekend or early next week before I leave for MI.! I promise!^^

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: actually...it's from cutting my wrists...i always forget that my family doesn't keep a stock of any thing more than small bandaids in this house...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: RaineDrop! Why do you hurt yourself like that??

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: seemed like a good idea at the time...(-_-)...

2005-01-24 [Dint]: Thought about getting these emotions out some other way? I draw out my anger or depression on paper in pictures. But of course that's just me. 

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: *shakes you* No RaineDrop...it won't help you, and it's not good at all. Look, it might seem like no one gives a flying leap about you, or wants to help you or any thing! But it's lies, and I tell you it because I am serious! No Catholic Church behind me! (well...my faith is always with me, but yeah..)...Don't hurt yourself RaineDrop. If no one else will admit to it, I will. I want you around. We might get into hot fights, but gosh darn it, cutting your self is not going to make any thing better....*hugs*. ...just try not to do it again...EP wouldn't be quite the same....yeah..

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: *sighs* i'm just tired...tired of life, tired, of myself, tired of people, tired of being so lonely...i just want to rest.....it's been 3 days since i have slept, at all...and before that, it as only a few short winks a day...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: You need to go to bed NOW and SLEEP! And before you do that, pray, a short prayer. A prayer of like...of strenth and of help. I know you *gave up on God*...but do this one for me. Sleep long and well, clear every thing out of your mind and just....try to think of the best things you have, or have had. Love. We've all seen love. Jesus showed us Love. Smiles, we all see smiles. Even if they are hard to see in dark times, we have them. We have each other...we have to seek each other out, and it can be a long journey, but we'll find each sooner or later.

2005-01-24 [Dint]: I know how you feel to a certain extent RaineDrop. I'm tired of myself and of people and being lonely. But then I just think to myself that everything happens for a reason, good or bad. Besides, if harships don't come into our lives we wouldn't grow strong. *Ramble ramble ramble*

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: i can't sleep..i laid in beed all night lastnight...and the night before...and i got so tired of just existing there that i watched IT on tv...it was on at 3 am...

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Uh huh, I agree Dint...life can be hard.

2005-01-24 [Dint]: When I get really down, I listen to a special selection of music that I have. I sit in my room for hours just listening to these songs or compositions, (yeah I admit, I can break down and cry for a long time too). -__- It's weird how things like that work. It's like a roller coaster for me. I can be happy and jovial for weeks and weeks, but then life catches up with me and I can get kind of mental. O_o

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: I should head off now! Sorry I couldn't be of more help RaineDrop, see you soon!

2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: I can't sleep either, you just CAN'T though today I did...digging out of three feet of snow will tire anyone out...hmmm, I listen to Radiohead when I feel down, which is basicly everynight I can't sleep, but I'm happy at the same time, its impossible to explian, I've never hurt myself though, but all of this leads to my very strange beliefs which you might, or might not be interested in *sigh*

2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: i love Radiohead...and music doesn't help me anymore...i just feel empty...my teachers alerted me to the fact that i am failing *every* class i'm taking at the moment by alot and normally i would be concerend...but now, i just sit there and feel nothing...i have also stopped blinking apparently

2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Maybe you should take a long vacation.....like...stop school for a week, get time to study or just relax and sit around! I do that when I feel like my head is going to implode. I take a week off and just read and...eat.....lol. Can't help that.